Welcome to Revenue Speaks, where communication becomes growth. I'm Sheila Johnston, founder and CEO of Luminari Partners. This show is produced in partnership with Page Design Group, where together we align strategy, brand, and digital to drive growth, Revenue Speaks explores how strategic communication aligns leadership and drives measurable revenue, because communication is an overhead; it's infrastructure, and in the end, Revenue Speaks. Jill, thank you so much for being on the Revenue Speaks podcast with me today.

Of course, I'm so excited.

So our relationship started a little bit unconventional, and through communications, I want to share how we met. Do you remember? I do. I do.

So our great mutual friends, Page Design Group, they have a podcast called the Marketing Team of One Podcast, and you were a guest on their show.

Yes.

I listened to your episode while on a run, and decided after I listened to your episode, I needed to be your friend. I pulled up the email that I sent to Eric, Mike, and Ashley. I love it, and I wanted to read this to you because the purpose of this podcast is to really highlight how communications can change relationships, organizations, culture, and even strengthen friendships. Because we're now friends, I thought reading this email would be a great way to start this episode. Oh my gosh, please!

It starts with "Good morning, team Paige. I listened to Jill's episode on brand personality during my morning run. It was absolutely incredible. I found myself anxious to finish so I can send you this message specifically to ask you if Jill is looking for a new friend. She is what I would consider the ray of sunshine and expertise that everyone needs in their lives. The only thing I wish she would have mentioned is the awesomeness of Mindy Colling and her rolodex of inspiration, but I'll certainly let that pass. And it continues with kudos to the team at Paige for finding such an expert in Jill to elevate the importance of personality and branding, in my mind, she's doing great work and making life easier for the rest of us. Oh! Thanks for making my run 10 times more enjoyable. So excited to see you soon.

Oh my gosh, my cheeks hurt! I'm smiling so much. I think this is one of the nicest things that anyone actually any time that I've talked to you, I'm just gonna brag on you for a minute. What a person who goes all in. We were so quick to become friends, like immediately, and so I am just so grateful that you would even think to be like, I have to meet this person. But also, I'm so glad that I met you.

Likewise, I mean, after meeting you, you have helped me figure out a better way to communicate for my business, and I know that's what you do for others. So, why don't you tell our listeners what it is you do?

Yeah, I am a copywriter and messaging strategist, so I walk through communication frameworks and help them uncover what it is they need to say, or what their audience needs to hear in order for them to buy from them, or donate, or give time, whatever that thing is that you need them to do. I help them say it super easily, so more people want to buy in.

I bet that's pretty fulfilling work. It is.

It feels so simple when it's boiled down, but gosh, people have such a hard time talking about what they do, and a lot of the times they don't realize that it's difficult to talk about what they do.

Why do you think that is? Where does that block come from?

There's a few things going on. One, people love to overcomplicate things. We just have this urge to either way overcomplicate it or not say enough. The ability to find words and communicate well is harder than people think it should be.

When you've seen communication working well for a business, either for one of your clients that you've helped get clarity or a better elevator pitch. Yeah, what have you seen change for them?

A lot of the times, it's things like, "Couldn't we do this ourselves? We couldn't have done this ourselves. Gosh, we've been saying it wrong all this time. Or if only we were able to have this for the last conference we were at, just an overwhelming. We know what to say, and when you know what to say, it's like everything else feels a little bit easier.

I agree with that, and it's also reflective in some of the testimonials that I read on your website. And I will say, it's probably the most amount of exclamation marks I've. Ever seen on a website, but it's so true because even having worked with you for my own business and what I know of the work you do for other companies, you've been able to capture how energy dictates the effectiveness of communications, and it's clear through your clients as well that through the exclamation mark study I did, that when you have energy in communications, your personality truly comes out.

Yeah, and it doesn't have to be like woo woo energy. It doesn't have to be like crazy excited exclamation point energy. It is true to you, but you can communicate that energy in tons of ways through the words you choose to say or the passion that you have. And if you can talk about anything with passion, like that energy really shines through in whatever you choose to say.

I completely agree, and you kind of talked about this a little bit when we first started to speak, but the act of overcomplicating things. Now we've talked about this struggle where sometimes communications feels like you're climbing Mount Everest, but really it's just taking a step. So when in working with your clients have you supported this mind perspective or this mind shift of thinking about communications as a step, but not necessarily a Mount Everest journey?

Totally. So, like boiling it down to like this is the smallest first thing you should do. What we did together with Luminari was great in that we created a one-liner and an elevator pitch, so the simplest version of what you should say, and a lot of that is conversational. It's what you're going to say in a networking conversation at a conference, the signature of your email. So it's going to show up in a bunch of different ways in writing and in conversation. But the one-liner format that I like to use is problem solution success. The people who you're talking to, your target audience. What is the problem that they're facing? The real tangible thing that's getting in their way. What is the solution that you provide? And those two things have to match up. And if they don't match up, then you got to go back to the drawing board. So like, if if you have a solution, but it doesn't really match with the problem, then gotta rewrite it, and we can talk more about that. But then the success is: what do they experience when you solve that problem? When they receive your solution, what is the new picture of success?

So it's not necessarily a me issue; it's an us.

Yes,solution.

Absolutely. What do we do together when we team up? How can we make the world better. How can we make your life better? Yeah.

Well, I love that you're speaking to me this way because communications is an exercise not just in speaking but in listening. And for so many organizations, sometimes that noise overpowers the purpose. And so, what do you tell organizations and clients that you work with about how to refine their voice or their personality.

A lot of the times, it's leadership driven or history driven. When you thought things were going well, what did communication look like? What did it sound like? What did it feel like? If you heard people talk to you about your organization, what did they say? So some of that is like looking back to the history and creating that picture. What did that look like? It could also be, "Hey, we can't look back. What is the next thing? Then it really has to come from a leadership standpoint, when they can go back and look at historical communication data, we'll call it the best source of your voice is going to be the people that you serve. So your best fit clients or your favorite people to work with, do you have 510, of those people that you can have a conversation with. Ask them what impact do you have? What problem are you facing? How do we best support you? Before you worked with us, what did life look like? Now that you work with us, what does life look like? Gaining some of that communication data. How do they talk about us? What are their words? What do they say is the problem that we solve in their life?

From that language, you can create a person and a personality and a message that can help you move forward. But it also has to be something that your leadership can really rally around, and I think that when you talk to your end user, we'll call them, you can't really deny their experience with you.

For the clients that you've worked with that have engaged on this brand personality investigation or. A journey of remembering why it is they do what they do, and they approach their customers or their end users. Are they pleasantly surprised to hear their own impact?

Yeah, it can also be hard to hear sometimes, especially if we have one strong leader in the organization who has been directing the organization in a specific way, who has a gut feeling about the organization and the direction of the organization, they hear something different from the people that they're serving. It can be hard to grapple with, hey, I was wrong or I didn't know. In that case, it's a little bit more difficult, but at the same time, it's really, really hard when you have data. It's hard to say no. That's not the right direction when you have the clear data. So yeah, sometimes it's not such a pleasant surprise, right? It's a different sort of feedback.

Yeah.

So when you've worked with clients that have gone down this journey, how have you seen the infrastructure within an organization, specifically as it relates to communications, change for the better. A lot of the times, it is a new rallying cry around the direction. They know what to say, and that now all of their marketing language comes from this True North document, so their website can change. They have a unified message, so everybody on the staff knows what to say and how to say it. It's a uniting thing to know that you're all working toward this same thing, and it's not the same as a mission statement because you could say that that's what you hope a mission statement to be. It's not the same thing.

And thinking about communication pivots, right after this investigation has happened and new statements for communications have been identified, where have you seen changes within an organization happen, either culturally or through practice or through deliverables.

I typically work with smaller teams. It does become like a unifying thing among the team because they have a clear direction. They know what they're working toward, especially when it comes to marketing. But it's more than marketing. It's how do we serve our audience? What is the solution that we provide? If we're only going in the direction of this one solution, then we're going all in on this one solution because that's what we talk about.

One of my favorite questions to ask all of my guests is how they define communications infrastructure because it's different to a business owner, it's different to an association, a nonprofit, a for-profit entity. Yeah, but I'd love for our listeners to know how you define communications infrastructure.

Yeah, anything that are words about your business, anything that you have to say about your business is your communication. So internal or external, at the foundation of that would be your overall brand message. So that's what I help organizations create is that foundational piece, the brand message. From that brand message, that tells you, hey, this is what you say and how to say it about our business, problem we solve, how we solve it, who we are, and the success that comes from that. So that's the brand message. Then from there, we can create email campaigns. We can create an ongoing newsletter. We can write ads, blogs, social content, anything that involves words. We use this brand message as the true north document to help move everything forward.

Now, this is really important because the words are often the first interaction a customer has with an organization, they can either turn someone away or make a lifelong customer. I was a volunteer for this organization and still am as California Society of Association Executives. And after saying those 18 syllables, it's no mystery why you were involved because CalSAE went through a rebrand and are now known as Associations West. Working with you as a volunteer on this specific project was so fascinating because I got to be the customer of this brand journey, but you, as a consultant, helped bring in everyone's thoughts, ideas as to what that new mission might be, right? What was that experience like? Learning the personality of Associations West through those conversations,they felt like their organization was older than it was, not from like an age perspective, but from the image that it was putting off. They needed something more modern. That came through in the design that Page Design ultimately created, which is beautiful, absolutely so beautiful. The colors that they used was so vibrant. We were thinking through the tone. How do we sound young, vibrant, community-driven, hopeful? All of those things, without sounding also too cheesy, without sounding like silly or not to be taken seriously, I think we landed on something really, really great that I'm proud to be a part of it.

You should be. It's one of my favorite missions, and it only has four words, so monumental in describing personality of Associations West, and you might recall, big missions, real community, and each of those words stand on their own, but together they really define what the organization is all about.

Yeah,and I will say, getting to that process took some time. Yes, you were really patient with the brand task force. I think

I had over 100 versions to narrow down and multiple revisions, which makes sense. It was really nice to see the thought process of the team and to say, "Hey, this is what's most important for us. Ultimately, it's the community. That's what we hear over and over again. We have to talk about community. We have to include that now. 100 versions that you pared down into four words that might scare some leaders that haven't yet started this assessment of how how well their communications is doing. Should they be scared of potentially 100 options?

Well, I don't think I showed 100 options. Thank you. I think it was 16 at the end of it, but then we iterated on the call, so it probably ended up with you know different versions of each. Yeah. So and I love that that journey always went back to an instinct. Everyone had to feel that it was right, yeah, and I think that's reflective of how strong a communications culture is. It's not only the brand or identity of an organization; it's the brand of the people that represent it as well. That's probably something you teach your clients, I suspect. And having gone through this myself, you asked me a lot of unique questions. I recall our conversation when we refined Luminari’s elevator pitch, relating to passions, vision,the why behind it.

Yeah, it was freeing in some way to go back to the basics and go back to the passion behind the organization, especially with solopreneurs, founder-led companies, where there is a personality, the passion of that person does play a huge role in the message. The why, a huge part in the message. It's not just the founder-led companies. Obviously, there is a why to every company. When I was talking with you, what made you want to do this? It's so important to who you are and the type of business that you lead and your unique proposition within the marketplace. Because if we don't share that, then well, you're just kind of every other consultant, and that's really hard to explain. It is. It is really hard to explain, and you did that so beautifully because you told me, Sheila, you do not need to be the ripple; you just need to be the rock that makes the ripple. And you gave me that permission to go back to my core, my passion, and my why. And I would just love our audience to hear why you think that's so important.

There's a framework that I was trained in for a long time. It's called story brand that positions your audience as the hero in the story and yourself as the guide. So you are Yoda to your audience's Luke Skywalker, and it goes back 1000s of years. It's the hero's journey, right? If we don't position you as a guide with empathy and authority, there is no reason to pay you to solve the problem that I have. I need to know that you understand my problem, that you have been there, you've experienced some part of this thing that I'm experiencing, and then I need to know that you don't just feel this pain; you also can solve it. So you know what to do. You know how to get me out of this thing. You know exactly which three rocks to step on in order to get me over this river that's really really scary. And so you just say, "Hey, I get it. This thing feels so overwhelming, but guess what? All you have to do is step here, here, and here, and it's going to be okay. And I'm like, oh, thank God! Someone else tells me that I can just do these three things, and I can get over this crazy, scary river. Right? Great. And that empathy and authority can show up in tons of different ways. A lot of the times when I write it, it's hey, I get it. Hey, this thing is so big that you're trying to face. I wrote a brand message recently for marketing concierge physicians as a cash pay doctor, right? And the villain in their story is insurance. I don't love calling out villains. We don't. Want to say that like your competitor is a villain necessarily? It's the system. So I wrote, "Hey, I get it. You are facing a billion trillion dollar industry that's over 100 years old. That's a really steep hill to climb.

Sure is.

We can also overcome that. So it shows up in a ton of different ways. That was one example, but it's just some sort of way to say, "I know that this thing is really big and scary.

Well, I mean, it's the permission, it's the trust. When you have clear communication and you have clarity in your communication, it really is more attractive to a potential customer, or are membership based. If you're an association or a nonprofit, right, it does elevate the provider as someone that is very capable, right, of solving the problem. It's already hard enough for a potential customer to pick up the phone or send an email.

Yeah, you never know.

Yeah, what you're going to get on the other end, right. The other part of that is making sure that that statement does not feel disingenuous, and so making sure it is the right angle, the right words.

Yeah, it's hard to find the right energy, the right tone. If you're not solving like world hunger, don't make it sound like you're solving world hunger, right? Absolutely. If you are, give it that gravity. People will see through that empathy if it's a little too woo-woo.

For my teams, always advise them: please type with a smile, because that is a reflective of my company's culture. Or answer the phone with a smile. Even if you're not feeling it, that personality will come out. Yeah, it's an extension of your brand, and it's an extension of your mission.

Yeah, I love that type of a smile. The words actually do come out happier.

Absolutely. When I worked at a phone bank, I had somebody who was training me tell me answer the phone with a smile, and I was like, "That's so cheesy. I don't want to do that. I was a 19-year-old, so annoyed about it. I'm definitely not answering this phone with a smile, but it's true. It's true. Communications is that powerful.

Yeah, if you're talking, if you're writing, speaking, or reading, it has the power to build bridges and make them stronger.

It is the one thing that we have been doing for 1000s and 1000s of years that has not really, really changed.

So, what would you tell companies, organizations, or solopreneurs how to better invest in their communications infrastructure as you defined it?

Have a brand message document.

What is a brand message document?

Your true north guide for anything that you write. So, when I write a brand message. It follows that here's journey framework. It makes sure that we understand who you're serving.

What is the picture of this person? Paint me a word picture. The generic kind of ideal client persona. Then, what do they want as it relates to the problem that you can solve? What do they want? Then we're going to talk about the problem. What problem is in the way? How do you solve it? Really clearly, one sentence, maybe two, and I hope that it doesn't have a bunch of commas. Like, don't list everything that you do. List the problem that you solve.

We're talking a trailer version.

Yes, pick the one thing-the one thing that solves that problem that they're facing. The rock. Yes, and the ripple. Exactly, exactly.

And then we're going to talk about the guide: empathy and authority. How do you understand that problem? How do you solve that problem as the organization? And then we're going to identify a call to action. What is the one thing that you want your audience to do, and if you're a nonprofit, it might be hey we have two things because we have donors and we have the people that we serve. That call to action might be different. But what's the one thing if you're going to talk about one audience? What's the one thing that you want them to do? Then the three steps. Like, okay, in order to get them to that one thing, what's the three steps to that thing, to the success? So the call to action, and then what's at stake if they do the call to action? What will life look like for them? And failure, short-term failure, not long-term failure. Short-term failure. What happens if they do not make this decision? Identifying those things helps you understand all of the important points of the communication that you need to provide because our brains run on story. Tell me the story. This is the story of your organization. You do not need to say how long you've been in business necessarily all the time. You don't need to tell me the history. You need to tell me how you can solve the problem that I'm having. This is how we can do that. That is the brand message that I would deliver and say, "Hey, go forth and conquer with your communications.

It all starts there. I love that you've been on this podcast with me talking about the importance of communication. And brand personality, and how vital it is for an organization to truly reframe the importance they put on communications and whatever avenue they choose to invest in. So, my question to you is: What would you say to a leader that might still think that communications is an expense, or in other words, overhead. A lot of the business owners that have come to me come to me after a long time of

trying to figure it out on their own. Things don't stick. Their team is running like chickens with their heads cut off. Just like I don't really know what what direction to go. They change their message every couple of years or every year or so because they just feel like something's not quite right. It's a cycle of just feeling like you have it, and then things kind of falling apart here and there, and then the wheels come off, and then it's like, oh, we need to get back to the basics, out of frustration, which is never good to come to communication in frustration.

Not when you need it. Not when you need it,

for sure. And all of that means that you're spending money on marketing that's not working. Your team is frustrated because you can't make up your mind, or leadership can't make up their minds, and that's really frustrating. And so culture is not great. We're changing directions again. I remember being in that place when I worked at a large nonprofit. Leadership was changing their minds constantly, and there was not a real, true direction from a communications and messaging standpoint, or something to even back up why we're going that way through a messaging document. That's kind of what's at stake here.

It's a success of your customer's journey,right? It is a long-term investment. You're buying something that will serve your organization for a long time, unless for some reason you have a rebrand and you need to do it again. It is an investment that will serve you for years.

I love that you use brand messaging and the brand positioning statement as your company's north star. So, for someone that might not have one, how can they find you and be well on their way.

Yeah, you can find me at felty.co. We can hash out that brand message. We can figure out all the details. 

You make it so easy, and you make someone fall back in love with their business. Oh, thank you so much. You are a true gem to work with, and I'm so glad you agreed to be friends with me. 

Oh, I couldn't say no. How do you say no to that honestly. Well, if other people want to understand why we became friends, they should listen to the marketing team of one podcast that you have been on not once but twice.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. The first episode is, I think, my favorite because we go into what made you want to be my friend, which was my whole blog series on applying this very framework to sitcoms, here's an easy way to understand this framework and how you can use it in your own business. So you can find all of those blog posts at my website too.

Please go to her website. It's a great website. Very easy. Lots of exclamation points. Yeah, Jill. Thank you for being on the show with me.

Thank you so much for having me. I just I love you.

I love you too.

Thanks for listening. We invite you to subscribe to this podcast and take our Revenue Alignment Assessment, a short strategic diagnostic for mission-driven executives. You'll find everything you need at RevenueSpeaks.com. Because communication isn't overhead; it's infrastructure. And in the end, Revenue Speaks.